More on the Attwells

Well I have continued to research the Attwell/Smith line almost exclusively and now have several birth certificates, all with Elizabeth Attwell as the mother and no father’s name given. Crucially, Ernest Robert Attwell’s date of birth is 19th Jan 1884, the exact same date as I had been given for Robert Ernest Smith (my grandfather). He was born in Station Road in Egham, so I went back to the Rate Books for Egham and, in 1884, there is an entry for Robert Smith (the assumed father), living in Station Road, Egham, but the entry is crossed out. I assume that the family moved on during that year.

I also now have the birth certificates for Albert George Attwell & Edith Attwell. Albert was born in Hythe Fields, Egham in 1892 and Edith at Frog’s Island, Egham in 1890. These both tally with the Smith family living at Frog’s Island in the 1891 census (Hythe fields appears to have been a general area in which Frog’s Island was a part) I have yet to find any of the other children’s birth certificates.

I decided to check the baptisms for Old Windsor (where the Windsor Union Workhouse is located). In looking through the Parish Registers at the Berkshire Records Office, I noticed that the Old Windsor Baptism book from 1861 onwards was not present. One of the staff suggested I contact the vicar of the church in Old Windsor and, sure enough, he still had that particular book, so I made an appointment, paid my fee & sat down with the book. In there I found the baptism records for Alice Attwell (20 Dec 1881, daughter of Elizabeth Attwell, Single Woman, Windsor Union Workhouse), Ellen Attwell (28 Feb 1888, daughter of Elizabeth Attwell, Single Woman, Windsor Union Workhouse), a Frederick William Attwell (6 Jul 1897, son of Elizabeth Attwell, Single Woman, Windsor Union Workhouse), an Ernest Attwell (9 Jan 1906, son of Elizabeth Attwell, Single Woman, Windsor Union Workhouse) and a William Frederick Attwell (16 Apr 1909, son of Elizabeth Attwell, Single Woman, Crimp Hill, Old Windsor).

Looking at that data a few things spring to mind. Elizabeth already had a son named Ernest (my grandfather) and, referring to the BMD registers, the only Attwell born in Windsor district in that year (or the surreounding years) is one Robert Attwell (sounds like another Robert Ernest/Ernest Robert issue!). Also, referring to BMD again, Frederick William & William Frederick were both registered as Frederick William Attwell. Now the first one may have died and she’s named the next one the same but I have another theory. Remember in the last post, I mentioned I had found a Frederick Attwell mentioned in the Windsor Union Workhouse Relatives’ book? Well, his relative was given as ‘Mrs Smith (Attwell), grandmother…’ So this Frederick must have been the son of her eldest daughter, also Elizabeth Attwell. This leads me to suspect that the Ernest/Robert that was baptised in Old Windsor in 1906 was also the younger Elizabeth’s son. I know that the younger Elizabeth spent time in the workhouse around that time because she is mentioned in the Punishment Book: 3rd Oct 1904, Elizabeth Attwell aged 27 – Disorderly Conduct – to be confined in a separation ward, one day, 3 meals low diet.

I’m in two minds whether to order the birth certificates for these latest children as I won’t be able to tell which Elizabeth was the mother.

I have also now got the marriage certificates for Elizabeth (the elder)’s daughters Kate & Ellen. Ellen did indeed marry Frank Bissett (mentioned in a previous post) and Kate married William Reginald Caister Prangley (again, mentioned in a previous post). I already had Robert Ernest (my grandfather)’s marriage certificate. They all married as Smith. Ellen Smith was a witness at Kate’s marriage and Edith was a witness at Ellen’s marriage.

I am going back to the BRO tomorrow to do some more digging and I was also contacted by a descendant of Ellen Attwell/Smith recently (through this blog) so, hopefully I may find out even more about this frustrating yet fascinating family!

For Smith, read Attwell!!

Since the last article (yes, it’s been a while, I’ve been busy researching!) it seems I may have broken through part of the Smith brick wall! The reason, it seems, that there were no Smith registrations during the life of Robert Ernest Smith (1853) is that he and his ‘wife’ Elizabeth, as given on the 1891 census, is that they were not married. I mentioned in the last article that his relative’s name (given in the Windsor Workhouse records) was given as Mrs Attwell at their home address and I thought it must be one of his daughters that had married. I searched around & came up blank on that line of enquiry, but while searching around, I came across a curious coincidence. In the 1901 census, there was an Elizabeth Attwell in the Workhouse, of the same age as his wife and given as born in the same area (Windsor). Strange, I thought, until I also found the name of 2 of her daughters and also the son that I’d just discovered (Albert) also in the same institution at the same time. All of the ages were approximately correct, but it could still be coincidence. I started delving deeper & found in 1881, Elizabeth Attwell with her 2 eldest daughters (different ones from 1901) living in the workhouse again, both children given as being born in the workhouse. Further searching found all of her children in 1901, all (except for Robert E) living as Attwells in various places, all with the right ages & birthplaces.

I next hit the BMD registers and lo & behold, most of them popped up immediately, including an entry for the birth of one Ernest Robert Attwell, born in the 1st quarter of 1884. I know from the family that Robert Ernest Smith was born on the 19th Jan 1884 so that seems like a good fit to me. I’ve ordered the certificate.

I popped back to the Berkshire Records Office to investigate the Workhouse records and found that her eldest daughter, also Elizabeth, was back there in 1917. I also found a record of one Frederick Attwell, born in 1909 whose relative is given as Mrs Smith (Attwell), Park Lane, Thorpe Leigh, Egham (there is no Park Lane, only a Park Avenue). I also found Kate Attwell (aged 15) in 1900 in the Pauper’s Service Book, being sent out to work for a Mrs Hoare in Clewer for 2/6 a week as a servant. Sure enough, in the 1901 census, she’s still there.

So I now have to wait for various certificates to prove all of this (if the father’s name is given on the birth certificates) but it all fits really well and I have tried to disprove many parts of it and have failed every time.

My initial impression is that Ernest Robert Attwell would likely be the son of Robert Ernest Smith, due to the name and the fact they are together in 1901, how many more of the children are his, I don’t know & I guess I’ll have to invest in a few certificates & hope she was honest & up front enough to name the father for each of them. I know that they were back together in 1909/10 when they moved into Park Avenue and that all of the marriages I have found so far of the children are all done in the name of Smith. Apart from that it’s all up in the air, but at least I have a name for her now & have been able to go back another generation on her side.

This one will run and run I suspect!

The S-Word part 2

At the end of the last instalment, I mentioned that I had a breakthrough which challenged some of what I believed about this family. The breakthrough came with Ancestry’s release of the WW1 pension records. I knew from my father that his dad, Robert Ernest Smith (junior) had served in the Army in the 1st World War and had been released early on health grounds.

Checking the pension records, I found Robert’s details and the first thing that caught my eye was his next of kin. It turned out that his mother (that I believed had died before 1901) was still alive in 1914 and she was living at No.2 Laburnum Cottages, Park Avenue in Egham. This address was new to me, so I immediately started investigating. Looking at, I found that the road didn’t exist in 1899, but had appeared by 1914. I decided to go and have a look down that road to see if I could find Laburnum Cottages and I wasn’t disappointed, it was still there, a semidetached property with just the two houses. I decided to knock on the door and speak to the current owners, not really expecting to find much out (we are talking 93 years ago after all) but I was pleasantly surprised to find that the current owner knew more than I would have expected. It turns out that his grandfather (I think) bought both houses back in 1950, he moved, with his family, in to No. 1 Laburnum Cottages. The current owner told me that, when his family moved in, there was a Mrs Smith living at number 2 as a tenant and she stayed there until she died in the 1980s. At first I was very excited, thinking this was the wife of Robert Ernest (senior) however, when I thought about it I realised it couldn’t possibly be her as she was born c1856 but that this Mrs Smith could still be a relation.

The owner said that his mother was still alive and she would remember more, so I gave him my phone number & he said he would call me with any new info. A day or two later, he called me and gave me some more info. He told me that, when the property was purchased, there was also a Mr Smith living there but that he died somewhere in the 1950’s or 60’s and that he’d fought in the war and had been gassed. He also mentioned that living next door was a Mrs Bissett and that she was Mr Smith’s sister. Also he mentioned a Miss or Mrs George that lived with the Smiths and that she was Mrs Smith’s sister. Crucially, he also said that Mr & Mrs Smith took on the house from his parents.

I knew that Egham Museum held the Rate Books for this area, so I spent a couple of sessions poring over those and found that Robert Smith first appeared in the house (which had been built in 1907) in April 1910 and was also given as the ratepayer in 1911 (though he actually died in 1910), then Mrs Smith took over. In 1919, she was recorded as Mrs Elizabeth Smith (matching the name I had from the 1891 census) but there was a gap in Egham’s collection of Rate Books after 1930 and in the next available one (1934) there was a Miss George living there and she was still there in 1940-41. Then there was another gap and in 1943, the rate-payer was Albert George Smith who continued to appear until their rate Books ran out in 1962-63. The owner of the property changed in 1950, confirming what the present owner had told me about his ancestor buying the property.

I needed further information, so I went to the Surrey History Centre in Woking and looked through the Electoral Rolls where I found Albert George Smith first appeared (with Elizabeth Smith, his mother) in 1924 and is there until 1964 (with a gap of a few years between 1927 and 1930, I assume for his military service), Elizabeth disappeared after 1931. From these records, I also found that Miss George was actually Edith George and she appeared in 1929 and stayed there for a long time. I haven’t looked beyond 1970 but she was still there with Albert’s wife Alice E Smith.

As Elizabeth disappeared in 1931, I checked the BMD records & found that she’d died in the September quarter of 1931 (I was a little shocked to find any record as very few births, marriages or deaths seem to have been registered by this family). I ordered her death certificate and it gave her address, which matched the address I had been researching. It also said she was the widow of Robert Ernest Smith and gave the informant’s name as one W R Prangley (son-in-law). Again, a new name to me and a little searching found a marriage between Kate Smith (one of Robert Ernest Smith (senior)’s daughters that I already knew about) and a William R C Prangley in the June quarter of 1915 in Staines. A little further searching found two children born to this family, Gladys L Prangley (1916) and Bernard F Prangley (1919)

Going back to the information that the present owner of Laburnum Cottages gave me, I also checked the details of the next door neighbours and there was indeed a Mr & Mrs Bissett living next door to Mr & Mrs Smith and Mrs Bissett’s forename is given as Ellen. One of Robert Ernest Smith (senior)’s daughters was, in fact, Ellen Smith. I haven’t managed to find a marriage entry for this one as yet, but I feel confident that this is the correct Ellen.

One other clue I have to look for next is the name that I found in the Windsor Workhouse’s records. I mentioned in the last article that Robert Ernest Smith (senior) died in the workhouse infirmary in 1910 so, while I was at Berkshire Records Office, researching another branch of the tree, I ordered up the Death Register and the Inmate’s Relative’s Address Book from the workhouse. The Death Register confirmed the details I had and mentioned that he was from Egham and was buried in Egham (paid for by the Union) and the Relative’s Book gave up the name Mrs Attwell at 2 Laburnum Cottages, Park Avenue, Egham. Yet another new name to me and I believe (though I have yet to prove it) that this was one of his eldest daughters who had already married. It seems to me that, while Robert (senior) was alive, nothing was registered, after he died there definitely seems to be more registration going on. Unfortunately, I still don’t know what his wife’s maiden name is or where and when they were married, I know nothing of his parents and there is a gap after 1891 where they could have had numerous children that I have no knowledge of. I still don’t know why only the two Roberts appeared in the 1901 census (and at a different address) my best guess at the moment is that the census taker missed their house or they were out at the time, though that doesn’t explain why they were living where they were. According to the Electoral Rolls, Robert was still around the same area as they were in 1891.

I have a feeling that this family will be elusive for a long time to come, but I always hold out hope that one breakthrough could blow it all wide open!

The S-word

Yes the Smiths! As I am a Smith, I thought I should start with them and the headache that they’ve caused me!

My paternal grandfather, Robert Ernest Smith was quite old when my dad was born (dad was the youngest of 10 kids) and some of his siblings had married, moved out & had children of their own by the time my father was born.

My parents gave me a copy of Robert Ernest Smith’s death certificate (1969) which gave his birth date as 19th Jan 1884 and place of birth as Egham, Surrey. As he was born in 1884, I went straight to the censuses of 1901 & 1891.

Working backwards, I found a Robert E Smith (of the right age) in 1901 living with another Robert E Smith at No. 73 Causeway, Egham, both as boarders in the house of one Albert W E Townsend and his family. The ages of the two Smiths were a clue to their relationship, the elder one being 31 years older than the younger.  Unfortunately, there were no other members of the Smith family at that address. Going further back, in 1891, I found Robert Smith with his family in Thorpe Road Cottages (Frogs Island) in Egham (my father had mentioned a ‘Froggy Island’ when I was getting info from him originally). Again, the father was Robert Smith, the mother, Elizabeth and also 5 sisters: Elizabeth, Alice, Kate, Ellen and Edith. Robert Smith (the elder) was given as being born in Egham in the 1891 census but as being born in Preston, Lancashire in the 1901 one. The ages matched however, so I noted the discrepancy & moved on.

I couldn’t find Robert senior in any other census, and, as I don’t know where he was born, I can’t find out who his parents were. There were no Robert Ernest Smiths born in Egham at the right time, there were a couple born in Preston but, tracing through censuses, they all seemed to stay there.

Having obtained Robert (the younger)’s marriage certificate (1916), his father was given as Robert Ernest Smith (deceased) so that helped to prove my case and also gave me a timeframe to look for his (the father’s) death. I managed to find Robert senior’s death certificate in 1910 in Windsor (just up the road from Egham). From that, I found that he died in the Workhouse infirmary, Old Windsor, aged 57 years. His occupation was given as a Gas and Water Pipe Fitter Journeyman of Egham UD, he died of Chronic Nephritis & Cardiac Failure. The occupation matched the 1901 census so that again added proof (I do like to find lots of relevant facts to prove the connections where possible)

I tried finding a marriage certificate for Robert senior but there doesn’t seem to be one, nor does there appear to be any birth certificates for ANY of their children. According to the census, some were born in Windsor and some in Egham, so I looked in both areas without success. I even ordered a few certificates that I was convinced were the right ones, but they all turned out to be from different families.

As the father & son were living on their own in 1901 (both given as single) I felt that the mother (Elizabeth) must have died between 1891 & 1901 and searched for death certificates and burial records but, again, I came up empty.

So this was how it all stood for quite some time. In fact, most of this I found in the first couple of months of my genealogical explorations and found no more for almost 2 years, even though, whenever I felt I needed a change from one of the other lines, I came back to the Smiths & dug around some more without success.

In the next enthralling episode, I find out that one of my assumptions was wrong and I find a new Smith, some marriages and a death.

First Post

OK, here goes with the first post on my new Blog. I should explain something about my research and my other interests.

When I was at school (many years ago), we were given a project to chat to our families & create a family tree from the information we got. Even then, I found it interesting. Mine was pretty large (mainly because my dad had 9 siblings) even though I only went back to my grandparents.

I started researching the tree in earnest just 2 years ago when a colleague mentioned he was tracing his family. We chatted about it & he showed me a few websites and I typed in some of the names that I knew and was immediately frustrated (as they were all born after 1910, the BMD indices weren’t (and mostly still aren’t) transcribed yet) but instead of being put off, I was intrigued & delved deeper, asked my family for more info & started getting somewhere. Two years later, I have almost 3000 names in the tree and have gone back many generations.

Obviously, along the way, I have hit some stumbling blocks but I have had some surprises & successes too, in the coming posts, I’ll outline some of the things I’ve found out, moan about some brick walls (like the Smiths) and maybe even ask for help & advice, so hopefully, you’ll keep coming back & commenting & we can learn from each other.

On a personal note, I am now 36 years old and working at a University in the Media Arts department which means I get to train people on the latest video editing & graphics packages (and play with them myself!). My real passion in life at the moment is photography and it takes up almost the same amount of my time as the family tree. I have a little photoblog too, pop over & have a look: pic-a-day